Forum

[This is an archived post from the previous EIA forum.]

RobJones said...

Hi Mr. Camplin:

It is probably bad form to reply to one's own post but my previous posting did not address your questions.  With respect to your issues listed in the original Post, please see my comments below.

1. The beach sand should be sampled to a depth that represents that portion for which humans may be exposed to.  In other words, how deep does a child dig into the sand (my own have been known to borrow pretty deep at the beach)?  That is the depth that should be sampled to.

2. PLM is an appropriate method for identifying asbestos fibres in soil though it may not see the really small fibres that are in the respirable range - it will at least give you an indication if they are present and an approximate percent.  TEM or SEM is appropriate for determining the extent of respirable fibres and should be completed as part of the risk analysis.  There is really no method developed for looking at soils under TEM/SEM but it can be done.

3. The results of the sediment analysis are not as important as the results of air sampling with respect to risk.  However, we know from a number of studies that agitating contaminated soils (even those contaminated at trace levels per PLM) can lead to airborne concentrations of asbestos - and no level of exposure is safe.

4. I read on your website the Illinois Dept of Public Health's Press Release dated May, 1998.  I could not open the more recent document (please send as an email attachment if possible as I would like to read it). The May, 1998 document is full of errors, false assumptions and outdated thinking with respect to the dangers of asbestos, particularly tremolite (just ask the folks in Libby, MT).  Low doses of exposure, for even short periods of time, can and do sometimes lead to mesothelioma, particularly with tremolite (an amphibole asbestos).  I suspect that exposure to children results in a much shorter latency period than for adults (and I have read several scientific studies to support this).

5. In my opinion, a risk assessment is needed that evaluates exposure scenarios, using aggressive sampling and lab analysis using TEM/SEM.  Throw away any notions of less than 1% is not dangerous, etc.  That being said, there may need to be a decision as to what exposure is acceptable to the public and I would submit that exposures that lead to an excess cancer rate of 1 in 1 mil. is unnacceptable.

This is a serious issue and you should be commended for exposing it to the public and holding your publicly elected officials accountable.  I would really like to see a few other experts in the field weigh in on this topic and my comments (particularly Andy O.).  Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts.

Robert R. Jones, REM

[This is an archived post from the previous EIA forum.]

asbguru said...

February 25, 2007

My experience with an "asbestos beach" took place half-way around the world in Nahariya, Israel. Waste from an asbestos-cement factory had been flowing downhill across a strip of land, an IDF patrol road and the beach into the Mediterranean for 45 years. By the time I was called in, the plant had stopped using asbestos, the city was in the process of constructing an amusement park on the land, and the beach was fenced off. Visible debris on the beach didn't stop people from using it, though. See the attached picture: I felt sorry for the dog. The road was still open to the public, but was closed on my recommendation. The park was never finished.

The Israelis were not concerned about asbestos in the water and never mentioned dredging off-shore. The beach and construction site were visibly contaminated with pieces of friable and non-friable debris the size of my fist to a depth of a meter and more.

Spending a week at this site made me realize a few things that may be relevant to the situation on the shores of Lake Michigan. Beach sand looks and behaves differently than ordinary dirt. It was easy to tell where beach sand had blown and washed over the road onto the construction site. It derives its mobility from the tides and also the wind: a process called saltation that creates sand dunes. All of this affects how the sand carries asbestos debris and fibers and where it deposits them.

The Lake Michigan site is different from Nahariya in that contaminated sand is allegedly being dumped on the beach instead of contaminated water flowing over the beach. The result is the same and so is the solution: dig it up and bury it. If the contamination is as extreme as the website makes it out to be, there should be no need for elaborate sampling and analysis. You don't need an electron microscope to find a piece of debris big enough to trip over.


Aren't there standards for the cleanliness of dredging spoil used to reclaim a public beach and doesn't the Corps of Engineers have jurisdiction? I doubt if it's legal to dump sand full of broken bottles and beer cans on the beach, much less toxic materials like asbestos.

Andy Oberta

The Environmental Consultancy

http://www.asbestosguru-oberta.com

(512) 266-1368

NBC in Chicago ran three investigative reports in July 2007 regarding asbestos on the Illinois Lake Michigan shoreline. You can view the videos and transcripts at
www.nbc5.com/unit5investigates/13799101/detail.html.

It is worth watching the first segment to see the USEPA Region 5 Superfund manager choking to find an answer to the question "are you concerned?" referring to the discovery of elevated levels of tremolite on Chicago's Oak Street beach. He fumbles for nearly 10 seconds before giving a non-response.

There is a new website that has extensive archived information:
www.illinoisdunesland.org

We are also involved in a federal lawsuit against the State of Illinois on this subject. We are attempting to get a court ruling to allow us to perform an independent study with sampling and a risk assessment. Is anyone interested in assisting us in preparing an extensive draft sampling plan and risk assessment protocol? We anticipate obtaining quite a large sum of funding to implement this plan.

Last edited by JCamplin (08-10-2007 08:06:45)